I have a question for you: Azocar or Marte? I was actually pondering this topic yesterday and asked myself, “what exactly does Marte bring to the table? What is his value? What is his future? And he hasn’t even taken his annual vacation yet.” This I came to as I was considering Alvarez’s return and what it meant for Torrens. I’d let Torrens play more than occasionally and put Alvy as the righty DH.
I would jettison Marte first and keep the defense and youngsters.
I'm not the most impartial observer here because I'm not a Marte fan. I think you can make a good case for Azocar over Marte but I'd be shocked if the Mets did that. At the very least, it's worth thinking about.
Salary talks. How would you suggest jettisoning Marte - just DFA him and hope somebody picks him up? If not, then what?
I can't say I fully disagree a lot with you, but there is more to it than on the field results, and I am not convinced that the only way that Azocar > Marte is defensively.
Here's a scary thought: Acuña is third on the Mets in OPS+ behind Alonso (247) and Soto (128)
Considering the above and the fact that 8 of the 12 best WARs on the Mets belong to pitchers, it's quite opposite to our pre-season expectations of pitching vs. offense
As for Baty, I am an old time baseball nerd. If I am Baty, I would become the best bunter on the team.
The bottom of the sixth inning today was a case in point. Winker led off with a walk and stole second. Acuna moved him to third with a groundout to second (good job - a productive out). If Baty could bunt, drag one down the first base line, Winker scores, and worst case there are two outs and a 4-1 game. A pop-out to the catcher was a killer play that could have (but fortunately didn't) hurt them later on. (it might have cost Holmes a well deserved win, though).
I wonder how Vientos is doing - that may have some effect on Baty's situation if Mark cannot go for even the Phillies series, even if he is not on the IL.
Baty has more upside and power than Azocar and is a LHB on the bench. His at bats should be sparse. If Vientos and Winker continues to struggle then maybe he can get some at bats at third and DH. That is what happens when a player fails three years a row. They feed on the crumbs.
It seems that Acuna contributes something everyday. Taylor and McNeil are the everyday starters but Acuna could take at bats from them. And if Marte doesn't start hitting LHP soon then Acuna could fit in as the right-handed platoon DH. Acuna is forcing his way to more at bats just like Inglesias did last year.
It all comes back to having faith that David Stearns knows a lot more about building a roster than any of us. Hard to argue with his success thus far in staying away from faking us out high priced free agents (ie Bellinger) versus reclamation and fringe players. Most teams could not afford to exceed $130 million for the first four spots in the batting order.
That being said, prior to the start of the season, I did not think that either Azocar or Senger even deserve to be on the 40 man roster. Happy to be proven wrong, but Azocar should be sent down when McNeil returns since he can play OF. Marte is a perfect example of the other side of 30 and the bad side of long term contracts. They probably could have dumped him in spring training by eating 15 of the $20 million that they pay him and while that whole concept seems absurd they would’ve saved $5 million.
I'm all for moving on from Marte, and I'm nearly certain it happens before the season ends, maybe long before.
That said, I don't think we know that they could have dumped him at that price. If you know of a factual report (not columnist speculation) saying so, please enlighten me. But the only report I saw only said the Mets were looking into trading him.
I think the Mets have more interest in prospect return than in pure dump. And its very feasible that they would not get anything unless they ate all of his contract.
And if you dump him in the winter, what would your plan have been at that point for the DH position? There really wasn't one. At least not a sound one. If you're going to dump him for nothing, you can do that anytime you want. So it made sense to wait until a situation arose that warranted it. Maybe this is that situation. Or maybe there's something else Stearns is waiting to see.
Well now his value is even worse. No credible reports of a team willing to spend even $5 million, but for that little, a team might have taken a shot since it seems to no longer be considered a significant salary these days. Lots of players could have filled the RH DH spot even if it was a rotation of regulars who were given a day off from playing the friend. Don’t understand why that’s such a bad idea. At this point Acuna could DH at the end of the order when McNeil comes back and Vientos is ready again.
His value is no different now, after just 50 PAs, than it was then. PoBOs are not that short-sighted. The point is that his trade value was so low anyway that the Mets thought he'd have more value as a player, even a limited one, than in a trade return.
As far as $5 million not being a lot, well, that depends. Teams are spending more for players that make up a relevant part of their fabric, and pinching pennies on the fringe players. As such, $5 million - plus some sort of prospect, plus a guaranteed roster spot - is a lot for a player who had already established that he could not hit right-handers, and could not viably play the field. If Marte were a free agent this off season, it is very unlikely that he would have gotten a major league offer at any price.
He wasn't worth dumping then. But due to the emergence of Baty and Acuna, and the need for someone who can play CF, it might warrant dumping him now, even for nothing.
Keeping Baty on the roster this season is a long term move. The experience he'll gain from being around Soto and Lindor everyday in what should be a year long pennant race will be invaluable next season when once again he'll have an opportunity to start somewhere - at 3b with Vientos sliding to 1b if Alonso walks or Dh'ing if Alonso stays. Or as a 4-5 day a week rotation player at 2b/3b and DH. Baty has little left to learn at AAA and Mendoza has done a nice job so far making sure everyone is getting time in. Both Baty and Acuna are proving to be good fits and good young balance to an experienced team. Keep em both.
I have a question for you: Azocar or Marte? I was actually pondering this topic yesterday and asked myself, “what exactly does Marte bring to the table? What is his value? What is his future? And he hasn’t even taken his annual vacation yet.” This I came to as I was considering Alvarez’s return and what it meant for Torrens. I’d let Torrens play more than occasionally and put Alvy as the righty DH.
I would jettison Marte first and keep the defense and youngsters.
I'm not the most impartial observer here because I'm not a Marte fan. I think you can make a good case for Azocar over Marte but I'd be shocked if the Mets did that. At the very least, it's worth thinking about.
Salary talks. How would you suggest jettisoning Marte - just DFA him and hope somebody picks him up? If not, then what?
I can't say I fully disagree a lot with you, but there is more to it than on the field results, and I am not convinced that the only way that Azocar > Marte is defensively.
"Acuna even has his OPS+ up to a 108 mark."
Here's a scary thought: Acuña is third on the Mets in OPS+ behind Alonso (247) and Soto (128)
Considering the above and the fact that 8 of the 12 best WARs on the Mets belong to pitchers, it's quite opposite to our pre-season expectations of pitching vs. offense
As for Baty, I am an old time baseball nerd. If I am Baty, I would become the best bunter on the team.
The bottom of the sixth inning today was a case in point. Winker led off with a walk and stole second. Acuna moved him to third with a groundout to second (good job - a productive out). If Baty could bunt, drag one down the first base line, Winker scores, and worst case there are two outs and a 4-1 game. A pop-out to the catcher was a killer play that could have (but fortunately didn't) hurt them later on. (it might have cost Holmes a well deserved win, though).
In the history of MLB - how many players who weren't asked to bunt in the minors became good bunters in the majors?
I wonder how Vientos is doing - that may have some effect on Baty's situation if Mark cannot go for even the Phillies series, even if he is not on the IL.
Baty has more upside and power than Azocar and is a LHB on the bench. His at bats should be sparse. If Vientos and Winker continues to struggle then maybe he can get some at bats at third and DH. That is what happens when a player fails three years a row. They feed on the crumbs.
It seems that Acuna contributes something everyday. Taylor and McNeil are the everyday starters but Acuna could take at bats from them. And if Marte doesn't start hitting LHP soon then Acuna could fit in as the right-handed platoon DH. Acuna is forcing his way to more at bats just like Inglesias did last year.
It all comes back to having faith that David Stearns knows a lot more about building a roster than any of us. Hard to argue with his success thus far in staying away from faking us out high priced free agents (ie Bellinger) versus reclamation and fringe players. Most teams could not afford to exceed $130 million for the first four spots in the batting order.
That being said, prior to the start of the season, I did not think that either Azocar or Senger even deserve to be on the 40 man roster. Happy to be proven wrong, but Azocar should be sent down when McNeil returns since he can play OF. Marte is a perfect example of the other side of 30 and the bad side of long term contracts. They probably could have dumped him in spring training by eating 15 of the $20 million that they pay him and while that whole concept seems absurd they would’ve saved $5 million.
I'm all for moving on from Marte, and I'm nearly certain it happens before the season ends, maybe long before.
That said, I don't think we know that they could have dumped him at that price. If you know of a factual report (not columnist speculation) saying so, please enlighten me. But the only report I saw only said the Mets were looking into trading him.
I think the Mets have more interest in prospect return than in pure dump. And its very feasible that they would not get anything unless they ate all of his contract.
And if you dump him in the winter, what would your plan have been at that point for the DH position? There really wasn't one. At least not a sound one. If you're going to dump him for nothing, you can do that anytime you want. So it made sense to wait until a situation arose that warranted it. Maybe this is that situation. Or maybe there's something else Stearns is waiting to see.
Well now his value is even worse. No credible reports of a team willing to spend even $5 million, but for that little, a team might have taken a shot since it seems to no longer be considered a significant salary these days. Lots of players could have filled the RH DH spot even if it was a rotation of regulars who were given a day off from playing the friend. Don’t understand why that’s such a bad idea. At this point Acuna could DH at the end of the order when McNeil comes back and Vientos is ready again.
His value is no different now, after just 50 PAs, than it was then. PoBOs are not that short-sighted. The point is that his trade value was so low anyway that the Mets thought he'd have more value as a player, even a limited one, than in a trade return.
As far as $5 million not being a lot, well, that depends. Teams are spending more for players that make up a relevant part of their fabric, and pinching pennies on the fringe players. As such, $5 million - plus some sort of prospect, plus a guaranteed roster spot - is a lot for a player who had already established that he could not hit right-handers, and could not viably play the field. If Marte were a free agent this off season, it is very unlikely that he would have gotten a major league offer at any price.
He wasn't worth dumping then. But due to the emergence of Baty and Acuna, and the need for someone who can play CF, it might warrant dumping him now, even for nothing.
Keeping Baty on the roster this season is a long term move. The experience he'll gain from being around Soto and Lindor everyday in what should be a year long pennant race will be invaluable next season when once again he'll have an opportunity to start somewhere - at 3b with Vientos sliding to 1b if Alonso walks or Dh'ing if Alonso stays. Or as a 4-5 day a week rotation player at 2b/3b and DH. Baty has little left to learn at AAA and Mendoza has done a nice job so far making sure everyone is getting time in. Both Baty and Acuna are proving to be good fits and good young balance to an experienced team. Keep em both.